BlackIntel Forum

BlackIntel => Help and support => Topic started by: Jamie on May 17, 2009, 02:01:36 am

Title: problem
Post by: Jamie on May 17, 2009, 02:01:36 am
Can you guys tell me about this message and what may have caused it -

[16/05/09 20:09:45] CluEleSS is a suspected cheater(Damage: 100000.000000;Warhead: 24; Distance: 53.553902).
[16/05/09 20:09:45] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[16/05/09 20:09:45]
[16/05/09 20:09:45] Weapon not availible.
[16/05/09 20:09:45]
[16/05/09 20:09:45] Name: CluEleSS
[16/05/09 20:09:45] IP: 90.197.77.73
[16/05/09 20:09:45] Ping: 111
[16/05/09 20:09:45]
[16/05/09 20:09:45] Damage: 100000.000000
[16/05/09 20:09:45] Warhead: 24
[16/05/09 20:09:45] Distance: 53.553902
[16/05/09 20:09:45]
[16/05/09 20:09:45] BIATCH version: 1.1 beta 1, built on May 13 2007 at 00:33:12
[16/05/09 20:09:45] IsAutoBanEnabled: 0
[16/05/09 20:09:45]
[16/05/09 20:09:45] Owned ammo types:
[16/05/09 20:09:45] - Ammo_MineTimed_Player, never selected before
[16/05/09 20:09:45] - Ammo_Pistol_Player, currently selected
[16/05/09 20:09:45] - Ammo_AutoRifle_Player, last selected 1578 ms ago
[16/05/09 20:09:45]
[16/05/09 20:09:45]

I'm 100% sure the guy wasn't cheating

Server was a death match server where they run armour mods have obelisk guns etc.

this is what happened just as the alert appeared in irc
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Gwynzer on May 17, 2009, 03:03:44 am
Warhead = 24, thats the Blamo-killer. kills things such as Purchase Terminals and AGT guns. Things thought to be undestroyable. He has the Pistol selected, so, unless the pistol is designed to do that in the server, he 100% certainly cheating.

Damage warnings in BIATCH are 100% positive, server side weapon mods can cause conflicts, but unless you see this message pop up fairly frequently then the guy is DEFINATELY cheating.

And, yes, hello Nune. I figured your prior experience with TK2 would have helped you a bit here...
Title: Re: problem
Post by: EvilWhiteDragon on May 17, 2009, 10:05:23 am
I'm 99,5% sure that the guy was cheating. Unless you really fucked up your always.something (like modding (that) weapons value to use blamo), BIATCH WILL NOT GIVE FALSE POSITIVES ON THIS.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: The Wiener on May 17, 2009, 12:41:20 pm
Nunega?!
Title: Re: problem
Post by: StealthEye on May 17, 2009, 01:19:56 pm
This is definitely a cheater. The guy had a client side modification of the pistol to use blamokiller with 100000 raw damage. The serverside mods do not affect this. (The only possible reason for this not being true would be a really weird bug, but that would be the first and thus highly unlikely)
Title: Re: problem
Post by: goztow on May 17, 2009, 01:30:12 pm
-TK2-BIbot- 90.197.77.73: ( clueless (17/05/09), NuNeGa (16/05/09) )

Hmmm :-S.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Jamie on May 17, 2009, 01:31:31 pm
Nunega?!

hai


Guy was not cheating, I can be 100% sure as it was me.

Do you guys know whether a obgun could cause this message to appear?
Title: Re: problem
Post by: goztow on May 17, 2009, 03:57:04 pm
You're sure the log is an original and not edited?
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Jamie on May 17, 2009, 04:25:28 pm
can't be 100%. Was given that by someone who is a mod there. He says the server owner gave it to him.

I have a check if I get the time later on.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Jamie on May 19, 2009, 02:39:15 pm
just a couple of thoughts, this guy is running the beta biatch from may 07, didn't you guys do an update since then :/

Maybe there were some bugs you found in the beta which could of attributed to it.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: goztow on May 19, 2009, 02:45:50 pm
That would be the last availlable version, I think.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: EvilWhiteDragon on May 19, 2009, 04:12:06 pm
just a couple of thoughts, this guy is running the beta biatch from may 07, didn't you guys do an update since then :/

Maybe there were some bugs you found in the beta which could of attributed to it.
We did release 1.1 RC1 in may, but it's actually release quality. We haven't updated it anymore since it actually count as 1.1

See: http://www.blackintel.org/?subaction=showfull&id=1179064168&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&&news
Title: Re: problem
Post by: StealthEye on May 19, 2009, 09:14:36 pm
There are no known bugs. There was never a final because there was never anything we had to change, thus releasing the same thing with a different version number seemed a bit odd. (Yeah, I agree; having a RC=final is odd too).

This log message can hardly be caused by a bug anyway; (warhead 24 = blamokiller = cheat warhead, 100000 = way too high = cheat damage) so if anything, it would be that another player cheated and it banned you instead, which again would be really unlikely. If that would happen due to some bug of some kind however, the real cheater would have gotten the same messages too and would be banned soon after or the server would crash. If neither of those happened and your messages are the only ones around at that time, you were cheating.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Jamie on May 19, 2009, 09:24:56 pm
i don't cheat... thats why im trying to find out why this occurred. I'm told this message occurred on the map before the one I was actually banned on. There were no repeat messages.

Refferring to a earlier post I do know a whole lot about the anti cheat in renegade, I did not get a pistol kill at all in the two maps I was in the server nor destroy anything with a pistol.

But whether I was cheating or not is not why I came here, I am trying to discover why this message came up, you guys wrote the the thing. Don't you have any theories?
Title: Re: problem
Post by: StealthEye on May 19, 2009, 09:54:19 pm
It's incredibly unlikely that this message wouldn't be true. I told you my theories, and how unlikely they are. Did you damage anything with a pistol?
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Gwynzer on May 19, 2009, 11:02:01 pm
But whether I was cheating or not is not why I came here, I am trying to discover why this message came up, you guys wrote the the thing. Don't you have any theories?

Shitty Direct Connect servers = possibility for people to nake fake.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: goztow on May 20, 2009, 06:31:36 am
Normally the moment you get caught with this cheat, you get kick-banned. So you can know yourself what you did then.

If you weren't in the game while being banned, then you have had a nick faker. However, a nick faker can't fake your ip. And I assume the ip in the log is yours. So the "only" other option is that the log isn't original.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: EvilWhiteDragon on May 20, 2009, 07:45:13 am
i don't cheat... thats why im trying to find out why this occurred. I'm told this message occurred on the map before the one I was actually banned on. There were no repeat messages.

Refferring to a earlier post I do know a whole lot about the anti cheat in renegade, I did not get a pistol kill at all in the two maps I was in the server nor destroy anything with a pistol.

But whether I was cheating or not is not why I came here, I am trying to discover why this message came up, you guys wrote the the thing. Don't you have any theories?
Someone modifing the logs? Seems the most probable.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Jamie on May 20, 2009, 10:44:30 am
Someone modifing the logs? Seems the most probable.

yea thats my only theory atm.

Title: Re: problem
Post by: LeeumDee on May 20, 2009, 02:14:05 pm
Normally the moment you get caught with this cheat, you get kick-banned. So you can know yourself what you did then.

According to the logs they don't have autoban enabled so the possibility of banning games later and even with the incident of him not being in the server when the ban took place is also plausible.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: httbird on May 22, 2009, 02:51:55 am
According to the logs they don't have autoban enabled so the possibility of banning games later and even with the incident of him not being in the server when the ban took place is also plausible.
Good point.  That would explain the delay in the ban.  However, what server did this incident happen on?  I think speaking to an admin there would work better.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Jamie on May 22, 2009, 03:08:12 pm
I think speaking to an admin there would work better.

was on mp-gaming dm server and the admin basicly told me to f-off when I pm'd him on irc :/
Title: Re: problem
Post by: EvilWhiteDragon on May 22, 2009, 03:10:10 pm
was on mp-gaming dm server and the admin basicly told me to f-off when I pm'd him on irc :/
Well, I would suggest to ask him to get to our forums and otherwise, you're out of luck. An admin ALWAYS have the right to ban you from HIS server. It may seem unfair, but in the end he's the one responsible for paying the bills and for running the server.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: VickVenom on May 22, 2009, 03:15:11 pm
evwd i think everybody knows that by now
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Gwynzer on May 22, 2009, 05:45:15 pm
Everyone in BlackIntel does, yer. Not everyone else though.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: LeeumDee on May 22, 2009, 06:01:22 pm
If one of their admins doesn't have the time for you then there isn't much you can do.
Just accept the ban, if you didn't cheat then fine they're liars and you know that.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: shaitan67 on May 27, 2009, 12:49:36 am
No need to be rude. 8)
Title: Re: problem
Post by: LeeumDee on May 27, 2009, 12:56:47 pm
No need to be rude. 8)

Who is being rude?
Or have posts been removed? Because I don't find my post rude.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: EvilWhiteDragon on May 27, 2009, 04:41:53 pm
No need to be rude. 8)
It seems that he registered just to say that, that's not giving me much trust in him.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: StealthEye on May 27, 2009, 09:49:25 pm
You're not giving him much of a chance/reason to explain himself here either now, do you? If the topic continues like this I'll close it.

I doubt there is much more (constructive) to add to what's already been said, but if you feel there is anything, feel free to post. :)
Title: Re: problem
Post by: shaitan67 on May 28, 2009, 01:45:40 am
I moderate there, and was there the day Jamie got banned. I am saying "no need to be rude" based on the "liars" comments. I do not recall attacking anyone with my statement. There is always more than one side to a story.
Evil, I did not register just to post, I have been registered here since January.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: LeeumDee on May 28, 2009, 02:12:43 am
Here we go....

I was not being "rude" as you put it. I was trying to asses the situation.
Given that Nunega claimed he wasn't cheating (and i stress 'claimed') It seems the only possible explanation in this tiny world is, the logs have been tampered with.

Saying that, given Nunegas (jamie) reputation around here, I'm certain it would not surprise anyone if he was cheating. Just the fact that he said he wasn't, people (including me) we're trying to cover all the options. If indeed there are more options, (as you are implying there are) please enlighten us.

Plus Biatch is not to blame in this situation, so it really shouldn't be discussed here?

edit: oh hang on, just to make sure my message doesn't cause' offense I'll add one of these at the end of it. (http://forum.blackintel.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif)  That works right?
Title: Re: problem
Post by: VickVenom on May 28, 2009, 08:50:29 am
Here we go....

I was not being "rude" as you put it. I was trying to asses the situation.
Given that Nunega claimed he wasn't cheating (and i stress 'claimed') It seems the only possible explanation in this tiny world is, the logs have been tampered with.

Saying that, given Nunegas (jamie) reputation around here, I'm certain it would not surprise anyone if he was cheating. Just the fact that he said he wasn't, people (including me) we're trying to cover all the options. If indeed there are more options, (as you are implying there are) please enlighten us.

Plus Biatch is not to blame in this situation, so it really shouldn't be discussed here?

edit: oh hang on, just to make sure my message doesn't cause' offense I'll add one of these at the end of it. (http://forum.blackintel.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif)  That works right?


true
Title: Re: problem
Post by: EvilWhiteDragon on May 28, 2009, 09:00:41 am
I moderate there, and was there the day Jamie got banned. I am saying "no need to be rude" based on the "liars" comments. I do not recall attacking anyone with my statement. There is always more than one side to a story.
Evil, I did not register just to post, I have been registered here since January.
Ok, my appologies for that then, but I hope you can agree that "no need to be rude" without further explanation does seem a bit weird for a first post eh?

Let it be clear that we're not calling anyone a liar, we're just thinking up what might be the reason. We know BIATCH doesn't fail in damage detection, we know that nune said that the admin doesn't want to talk about it (seems odd imho), and we know that nune says he didn't cheat. Granted, the last thing is very doubtful, but we do need to consider the consequences.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: shaitan67 on May 28, 2009, 09:00:07 pm
Believe me, when Jamie came to me about this that day, the first thought I had was unbanning him. Thinking maybe, just maybe, the admin banned in error(and yeah I would've unbanned). I also have explored the "fudging of the log" theory, which I came to that day as well. One thing that stands out refuting that is: after me asking the owner for a BIATCH relay into the channel, he was quick enough to make me one. Why would he lie, and then do as I asked as soon as he could?
I was shown the BIATCH logs, and I looked at the ingame logs. Jamie's story didn't add up, he never had an obelisk gun(that isn't the only inconsistency either). The obelisk on that server only does 350 damage, just so you know.

My short comment to you all(not just one person here) was because quite honestly I was busy that night. I didn't have much free time, and I didn't want to make a huge speech. So I kept it simple.
There's more I could add here, but I really want to get some stuff done tonight.

LeeumDee your sarcasm is duly noted, filed, trashed, and forgotten. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Gwynzer on May 28, 2009, 09:57:04 pm
The obelisk on that server only does 350 damage, just so you know.

Indicating modified game files, i.e. a damage hack.  BIATCH wouldn't detect it if the gun was doing what it was meant to do (firing an obelisk projectile that does 350 damage).  The weapon fired wasn't using the obelisk projectile, it was using BlamoKiller - the projectile that can destroy PCT's and AGT sentry guns.  Unless your obelisk gun can do this, Jamie was cheating, or someone was direct connecting with his nickname to cheat.

Just so you know, we have had incidents with NuneGa in the past for what we, BlackIntel, and our partner community, The KOSS2, consider cheating.  The log being real isn't that hard for us to belive.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: LeeumDee on May 28, 2009, 10:02:01 pm
LeeumDee your sarcasm is duly noted, filed, trashed, and forgotten. Have a nice day.

You forgot the  '8)'
NOW im offended. Oh deary me.

If you have modified damage weapons, im pretty certain that you shouldn't run BIATCH, well at least should not rely on its damage hack prevention messages.

Just so you know, we have had incidents with NuneGa in the past for what we, BlackIntel, and our partner community, The KOSS2, consider cheating.  The log being real isn't that hard for us to belive.
To clarify, Gwynzer means: When Nunega (Jaime) was a member of our allied clan (the koss 2) he joined our server under one nick, then joined on another nick and donated himself his 400 start credits then left. Giving himself an unfair advantage over other players. He later refused to apologise and after many conversations was banned.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: shaitan67 on May 28, 2009, 10:31:07 pm
Indicating modified game files, i.e. a damage hack.  BIATCH wouldn't detect it if the gun was doing what it was meant to do (firing an obelisk projectile that does 350 damage).  The weapon fired wasn't using the obelisk projectile, it was using BlamoKiller - the projectile that can destroy PCT's and AGT sentry guns.  Unless your obelisk gun can do this, it was a cheat, or someone direct connecting with his nickname to cheat.

Just so you know, we have had incidents with NuneGa in the past for what we, BlackIntel, and our partner community, The KOSS2, consider cheating.  The log being real isn't that hard for us to belive.
I know it was blamo, I brought that up due to Nune saying it was the obelisk gun/pistol/chain.
It was him, after he was booted, he PM'd me in irc. While I was still chatting between him,Strike, and Xpert, he had joined another server using that same nick/ip/serial. If you notice from his second post he doesn't deny it was him.
If this was something like RR, we probably wouldn't even be discussing this. Considering that one gives off more errors than I have ever seen. BIATCH on the other hand, has been pretty good at giving moderators hardly any errors.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: StealthEye on May 28, 2009, 10:51:30 pm
Quote
If you have modified damage weapons, im pretty certain that you shouldn't run BIATCH, well at least should not rely on its damage hack prevention messages.
You definitely should, and BIATCH is just as trustworthy as on a non-modified server. However, the raw damage values may not be touched, and there is no reason to change them anyway since they do not affect anything except for server side damageable objects (basically, that only includes buildings, not even turrets). Even if you want to change building damage, changing the raw damage is not the best way to do it. Either way; a blamo killer warhead with such damage values is not normal, with or without mods.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: Jamie on June 03, 2009, 10:04:31 pm
I didn't cheat, already concluded there was no way to prove that so haven't visited these forums in almost a week.

I did not get a pistol kill at all nor destroy and vehicle with one.
I have never used anything I would consider a cheat in anything other than private servers.

Regardless this was caused either by a biatch bug or by a admin who was sick of getting killed a lot.
Title: Re: problem
Post by: StealthEye on June 03, 2009, 10:46:43 pm
The chance of a BIATCH bug is very low. It would be the first time it showed up, and since it has existed for a while now that is unlikely. Also, this would be rather weird output for a bug anyway, since it doesn't just get the 100000 and warhead 24 out of nowhere.

Afaik, MP-Gaming is a decent server with a good reputation, it's highly unlikely that someone tampered with the logs. To be sure, I'll ask Reborn, whom I fully trust, to check them.

So it's really most likely that you cheated. The only possibility that seems to be left is that you used cheats in a private server and forgot to turn them off or something. Either way, I do indeed not see any possibility for you to prove that you were not cheating; all the odds are definitely against you here.

Therefore I close this topic. If there is any new info or some kind of prove that you did not cheat, PM me and I will of course reopen the topic and/or post the information.

[edit]
Reborn confirmed the logs.